Monday, February 9, 2009

Facebook Being Used for Sharia Divorces

Back in December I posted about how Muslims were planning to invade Facebook to spread their propaganda.
Now Muslims have taken it even one step further and are using Facebook for sharia divorces. This all has the approval of sharia lawyers. Is there any aspect of our lives that they are not applying Islam to?

Hat tip to The Religion of Peace

Facebook divorce
By PEARL LEE February 09, 2009

Syariah lawyers said that it’s perfectly all right for a Muslim to divorce their spouse on Facebook or any other social networking website as long as it is in line with hukum syarak (Islamic law).

They were commenting on the curious case of Neil Brady, a 39-year-old Briton who ended his six-year marriage to his wife Emma, 35, and announced it on Facebook last week, making it the first Facebook divorce ever recorded. ( see accompanying story )

Syariah lawyer Muhamad Burok said it does not matter how the declaration of divorce is made as long as it is communicated to the spouse.

“A declaration of divorce among Muslims that follows the hukum syarak is a communication between parties, in this case between a husband and his wife.

“This includes putting down words in writing and sending it to the spouse. It does not matter what medium was used; be it email or SMS; as long as it’s later verified in the (Syariah) court.”

Muhamad also said that the issue of time lapse does not arise in this case. If one makes the declaration of divorce against his spouse today on Facebook and the spouse only learns of it a week later, the effective date is still on the day the posting was made.

Although he has not yet heard of a similar case here, another Syariah lawyer, Zulkifli Che Yong, said: “It is merely a new way of declaring your intentions. In the old days, people used to send letters, telegrams and faxes, but with the advent of technology, it’s becoming easier. It does not matter what medium you use as long as the intent is clear.”

Zulkilfi said that as long as the words used were clear and conclusive (soreh ), then the declaration of divorce accepted. He said another type of declaration is known as kinayah . This is not as clear as the first type of declaration and needs to be coupled with intent and would have to be verified later by the Syariah court.

He also added that the words used must not leave any doubts as to intent, such as “I hereby divorce you with talak satu”.

However, if the statement reads: “I want you out of my house from now on”, then the Syariah court would have to find out what the husband’s intention was at the time he made that statement.

The lawyers also said that it did not matter if the declaration of divorce on Facebook was not made known to a spouse directly as it could also be communicated via a third party.

“A divorce has taken place as soon as the individual finishes writing and as long as there is intent,” Zulkifli added.

Meanwhile, lawyer Surjan Singh said divorce declarations made on Facebook would not apply to non-Muslim couples who will have to get their marriages annulled by the courts.

Neil makes history

Neil Brady, a 39-year-old Briton ended his six-year marriage by making an announcement on Facebook last week – making it the world’s first Facebook divorce.

Foreign news reports had said that Emma Brady, 35, only found out about her husband’s intentions when he changed his Facebook status to read, “Neil Brady has ended his marriage to Emma Brady”. Emma only found out after a friend in Denmark called her up to see how she was coping.

Emma, a mother of one who works as a conference organiser, was shocked by her husband’s actions. This was disclosed during a magistrate’s court hearing in Blackburn at Neil’s sentencing hearing for allegedly assaulting Emma at their home in nearby Accrington.

The Daily Mail had also reported that Emma only joined Facebook because the girls at work said it was good fun.

“What upset me the most was not the fact that Neil had written he had ended our marriage, but the comment from a girl in Canada who said: ‘You are better off out of it’. It hurt me that he had been speaking to someone else about it,” Emma told the Daily Mail .

Emma alleges that even after Neil posted that message, he still didn't tell her for a while that he wanted a divorce.

“He acted like everything was fine, so we carried on as normal,” she said.

Neil Brady said he did tell his wife about wanting to leave her, stating, “I'd had enough of her.”

Neil now lives with his mother.

Recent divorce declarations made via SMS

2006: Singer Noraniza Idris claimed to have a received an SMS from then husband Fauzi Mohd Tajuddin (or better known as Fareez) seeking a divorce.

October 2008: Actor Nasrizal Ngasri, 28, better known as Bell, sent an SMS at 3pm on Oct 22, 2008, to his wife Nur Farhana Mahamad Fauri or Sasha. In it, he had stated: "Aku ceraikan kau (I divorce you). Thank you. Selamat berjaya (All the best)." Bell later stated that the statement was made without malice.

Nov 18, 2008: Renowned painter Raja Azhar Raja Lop Idris sent an SMS divorcing his then wife Charmaine Winifred Idris.

Nov 25, 2008: Dino Rais, son of Foreign Minister Datuk Seri Dr Rais Yatim, divorced his then wife Riza Ainurin Ramlan through an SMS

Link to Article


Perpetua said...

What does SMS stand for?

Christopher Logan said...

It means text message.

Grace Explosion said...

What would happen if a wife sent the same message to her husband?? An "honor killing" sharia law would uphold.

To use the term "law" is ridiculous. This is evil. Sharia oppression, injustice and hate is not "law" by any moral sense of the use of the world "law".

Anonymous said...

Muslims always do this. To get citizenship, money and residence, they marry western woman and after the purpose is solved, these women are left on their own with kids. These confused women and their children keep singing the 'taught Islamic melodies'. CNN is full of such examples.

Perpetua said...

Hi Anonymous,
What does CNN refer to in your comment?
Are you saying that the television news channel CNN has done an investigative story on this?

Jamie said...

What anonymous has said about Muslim men is true. I am not sure what CNN is though.

tom said...

What a bunch of stupid bastards, but, dumber still, the idiotic western woman that marry these scum;they deserve what they get!
Now, how is this viewed in the western societies; that have their "law of the Land" look upon this? Can these dumb ass woman have any recourse in the law of the country they are in?
How kool, a husband just has to become a muslim, use the sharia law to devource,screw his wife royally,and be gone! Wonderful!!!
By the way; one question,can a woman us the same Sharie law and devource their husbands? If they can't, and I don't think they can, it should be publisized to all dumb ass western woman, what to expect from the these scum sucking, pig breed muslim,camel shit, scum of the earth.....Tom

tom said...

To the board: As you read my posts, you obviously see I from the depth of my hear An-ti muslim/islam.I have never hated as deeply, a (THING)As this muslim scum that is spreading like dirrhea from a camels ass devil worishiping Islamic cultist.
Listen, it is demanded by their Koran to force all, non muslims to bow down,and forced to accept Islam by any means. Read the FUCKEN BOOK PEOPLE!You think you have something to fear now, you have seen nothing yet!
The ignorant uninformed have set their own destruction in stone by voting for Barrack Hussein Obama; you fucked yourselves people!What do you think the message of that name as our president has to say to the world!!Damn, what a bunch of Ignorant Americans.As for the rest of the shit that has come here from where ever...."Go the fuck back where you came from!!"
From an American that fought in Viet Name, only to allow the scum that the gov. allows to be here so the Gov. can control the voting in this country. Obama, afro-Jerk, as I call him, is controlled by the Democratic party as their boy
For those of you voted for him, just look at the news each day, as America is brought down by Barrack Obam,and the Democratic party....Tom

Perpetua said...

I wonder if our president's own mother was the victim of this sort of divorce? Was she shocked to find out that he had another wife and that he could divorce her so easily according to his religion.

Anonymous said...

Now i know why the muslim population is growing at such a rate.. males are allowed to divorce their wife as quick as they take off their underwear.

Ben said...

Reliance of the Traveller treats of Marriage in Book M and divorce in Book N. Read 'em and weep.

Any Western woman who marries a Muslim is indeed an ignorant ass and will suffer severely for her ignorance.

Any female considering such idiocy would do well to read Surahs 2 & 4 of the Koran followed by Books M & N.

Fuckislam said... long muslim sucker.

Fuckislam said...

...and isn't there some sort of law preveting inter species marriage? i.e. muslims and humans?

Muslim4Life said...

As a Muslim, I feel that doing such thing on FB is wrong... But for all of you confused (Anti-Muslims)...this is what you need to know about Polygamy in Islam:

Why is a man allowed to have more than one wife in Islam? i.e. why is
polygamy allowed in Islam?
1. Definition of Polygamy Polygamy means a system of marriage whereby one person has more than one spouse. Polygamy can be of two types. One is polygyny where a man marries more than one woman, and the other is polyandry, where a woman marries more than one man. In Islam, limited polygyny is permitted; whereas polyandry is completely prohibited.Now coming to the original question, why is a man allowed to have more than one wife?
2. The Qur’an is the only religious scripture in the world that says,“marry only one”.
There is no other religious book that instructs men to have only one wife. In none of the other religious scriptures, whether it be the Vedas, the Ramayan, the Mahabharat, the Geeta, the Talmud or the Bible does one find a restriction on the number of wives. According to these scriptures one can marry as many as one wishes. It was only later, that the Hindu priests and the Christian Church restricted the number of wives to one.Many Hindu religious personalities, according to their scriptures, had multiple wives.In earlier times, Christian men were permitted as many wives as they wished,since the Bible puts no restriction on the number ofwives. It was only a few centuries ago that the Church restricted the number of wives to one.Polygyny is permitted in Judaism. According to Talmudic law, Abraham had three wives, and Solomon had hundreds of wives. The practice of polygyny continued till Rabbi Gershom ben Yehudah (960 C.E to 1030 C.E) issued an edict against it. The Jewish Sephardic communities living in Muslim countries continued the practice till as late as 1950, until an Act of the Chief Rabbinate of Israel extended the ban on marrying more than one wife.

Muslim4Life said...

3. Average life span of females is more than that of males: By nature males and females are born in approximately the same ratio. A
female child has more immunity than a male child, and can fight the germs and diseases better than the male child. For this reason, during the pediatric age itself there are more deaths among males as compared to the females.During wars, there are more men killed as compared to women. More men die due to accidents and diseases than women. The average life span of females is more than that of males, and at any given time one finds more widows in the world than widowers.

4. World female population is more than male population; In the USA, women outnumber men by 7.8 million. New York alone has one million more females as compared to the number of males, and of the male population of New York one-third are gays i.e sodomites. The U.S.A as a whole has more than twenty-five million gays. This means that these people do not
wish to marry women. Great Britain has four million more females as compared to males. Germany has five million more females as compared to males. Russia has nine million more females than males. God alone knows how many million
more females there are in the whole world as compared to males.

5. Restricting each and every man to have only one wife is not
practical Even if every man got married to one woman, there would still be more than thirty million females in U.S.A who would not be able to get husbands(considering that America has twenty five million gays). There would be more
than four million females in Great Britain, 5 million females in Germany and nine million females in Russia alone who would not be able to find a husband.Suppose my sister happens to be one of the unmarried women living in USA, or
suppose your sister happens to be one of the unmarried women in USA. The only two options remaining for her are that she either marries a man who already has a wife or becomes 'public property'. There is no other option. All those who are modest will opt for the first.

Muslim4Life said...

Let us now analyse why Islam allows a man to have more than one wife.
6. Qur’an permits limited polygyny
As I mentioned earlier, Qur’an is the only religious book on the face of the earth that says ‘marry only one’. The context of this phrase is the following verse from
Surah Nisa of the Glorious Qur’an:
“Marry women of your choice, two, or three, or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one.”
[Al-Qur’an 4:3]

Before the Qur’an was revealed, there was no upper limit for polygyny and many men had scores of wives, some even hundreds. Islam put an upper limit of four wives. Islam gives a man permission to marry two, three or four women, only on the condition that he deals justly with them.
In the same chapter i.e. Surah Nisa verse 129 says:
“Ye are never able to be fair and just as between women....”
[Al-Qur’an 4:129]

Therefore polygyny is not a rule but an exception. Many people are under the misconception that it is compulsory for a Muslim man to have more than one wife.Broadly, Islam has five categories of Do’s and Don’ts:
(i) ‘Fard’ i.e. compulsory or obligatory
(ii) ‘Mustahab’ i.e. recommended or encouraged
(iii) ‘Mubah’ i.e. permissible or allowed
(iv) ‘Makruh’ i.e. not recommended or discouraged
(v) ‘Haraam’ i.e. prohibited or forbidden
Polygyny falls in the middle category of things that are permissible. It cannot be said that a Muslim who has two, three or four wives is a better Muslim as compared to a Muslim who has only one wife. 8. Marring a married man preferable to becoming 'public property'
In Western society, it is common for a man to have mistresses and/or multiple extra-marital affairs, in which case, the woman leads a disgraceful, unprotected
life. The same society, however, cannot accept a man having more than one wife, in which women retain their honourable, dignified position in society and lead a protected life. Thus the only two options before a woman who cannot find a husband is to marry a married man or to become 'public property'. Islam prefers giving
women the honourable position by permitting the first option and disallowing the second.There are several other reasons, why Islam has permitted limited polygyny, but it is mainly to protect the modesty of women.

Ameera said...

very nice post Muslim4Life! very factual and straight forward.

for those whom have commented before, try providing evidence and factual info rather than your racist/ignorant opinionated crap...ya'll need to slow ur roll and try understanding what ur talking about before u say anything, whether u support Islam or not, u can say it, but with respect and with out jumping into conclusions about "what u think." Religion is FACTS not opinion!

Perpetua said...

Hi Muslim4Life,

I don't understand what you mean by the woman being married to a man as providing "protection". Protection against what?

It seems like a woman is worse off if she is married because if she is raped she can be killed for committing adultery while an unmarried woman is only (only!!) lashed 100 times for committing fornication when she has been raped. That is unless the family commits an "honor killing" against her for being raped.

Anyway, the idea that marriage to a Muslim man "protects" the woman seems absurd to me given that the man can divorce the woman so easily (as is the subject of this post).

Muslim4Life said...

Hey Perpetua,
In of a man's main responsibilities is to provide his family protection, he protects his wife, mother, sisters, etc.. AGAINST ANY THREATS OR POSSIBLE HARM.

To continue...for a women who has been raped/ committed adultry... that doesn't mean that she is better off not being married bc she might be killed... Think about it, rape and adultry are 2 different things! Rape is involuntary, and adultry is a women having voluntary intercourse with another man that is not her husband (cheating) And cheating on a spouse in Islam results in one being SEVERELY punished by Allah on the day of judgement. As for rape...its a different situation.
I wont deny that rape happens to Muslim women, but to add; In Islamic Law; if a man is convicted of having raped a women; he is given capital punishment.(it's that serious of an offense)

Finally, I dont blame you for thinking that its absured for a man to divorse his wife in that's what u need to consider though, This article is written by a non-muslim, meaning that her intention is to provide the reader with misconseptions about the shariya's ruling on marriage and divorces in Islam...moreover, if she really wanted to make a valid point other than spreading hate toward the Islamic Law, she should have explained what it was, and the specific ruling that states for a man to do that is acceptable (quranic verses, or hadiith) would be 2 very important things to include.

And lastly, I do think that this is absurd for any man with any religion to do that to his wife. The author as u can see intended for ur reaction>> she wanted u to think that bc this lawyer says its okay...then its okay for it to happen. she was lacking evidence, and she never mentioned that the couple were EVEN muslims!!! All she said was that the Islamic Law allows 2 ppl to do that...but the FB story could have been added to the story to make it more interesting and make non-muslims upset.But in Islam, a women is highly respected...this story can be fake; which I think it is, bc any true Muslim would not do such a thing and end a relationship in that manner...especially if he has kids.

As a muslim, I strongly suggest you don't, infact NEVER judge Islam or any other religion by its followers. I may have some of my own opinions about other relgions...but I dont like to judge the religion by its followers, instead by its authentic sources (i.e.Quran and Hadiith)...Bible, Torah..etc..

if u have any other questions, please ask...I dont mind answering them :)


Ben said...

The Shari'ah of marriage & divorce are contained in Books M & N respectively of Umdat as-Salik. There is a search engine in the frame surrounding the scanned image of the text.

Read'em and puke.

Perpetua said...

Hi Muslim4Life,
I agree that rape and consensual sex are two different things. The problem is that a woman who had been raped, but cannot prove the rape, is treated as having had consensual sex. And proving rape is very difficult as it requires four witnesses. But the proof of having had sex is in the pregnancy. So a woman who is raped and get pregnant will be accused of having had consensual sex.

We have seen two cases of this recently,
the woman who was gang raped in Saudi Arabia, and
the 13 year old girl who was gang raped in Somalia.

Ben said...

In my previous comment, I presented a link to Umdat as-Salik where you can read the law on marriage & divorce.

That fiqh is based on Moe's recitation & Sunna. Surah An-Nisa' deals with marriage. 4:34 includes the divine permission to beat your wife.

Divorce is discussed in Surah Al-Baqarah.

Moe's threat to divorce his own wives is contained in Surah Al-Ahzab.

In Surah At-Talaaq, we discover the fact that Allah allows Muslims to marry and divorce pre-pubertal girls.

Marriage is covered in Book 62 of Bukhari's Sahih Hadith collection. Book 63 covers divorce.

Have I told you how handy it is to have searchable Qur'an & hadith on your desk top and where to obtain them?

Ben said...

The Evils of Islamic Political Ideology, Suppression of Women

Muslim4Life said...

Ben, I don’t know what u exactly mean by Books M & N!
But as for ur links here is what I have to say:
Surat Al Nisaa verse 4:34 DOES NOT include the divine permission to beat your wife. In the link u provided>> the interpretation of the verse is MISSLEADING. First of all, this link; comes from a university; which makes no sense to have Quran and in its website>> Titled Center For Muslim-Jewish Engagement!!! Furthermore, the verse is MISINTERPERTED in that source>> Remember that the Quran is ONLY in Arabic… no matter how many languages ppl translate it to, ITS ORIGINAL FORM REMAINS IN ARABIC… and going back to the verse in another Quran specific source here is what that very same verse translates to… “Men are guardians over women because Allah has made some of them excel others, and because men spend on them of their wealth. So virtuous women are obedient, and guard the secrets of their husbands with Allah’s protection. And as for those on whose part you fear disobedience, admonish them and keep away from them in their beds and chastise them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Surely, Allah is High and Great” This is verse 4:35, not 34 btw! don’t take this verse wrong as it stands alone… its message is to Not Beat Your Wife (read and understand the whole soura as a whole, and you will see for yourself).

As for the other souras you mentioned like (Al Baqara, Al Talaq…) Since you used the same source as when u reffered to Al Nisaa…I suggest you find much better and reliable sources! This source can be misleading because of its location on the internet (Center For Muslim-Jewish Engagement!) … if u choose to learn about what Islam truly means, then you must search WITH IN ITS AUTHENTIC SOURCES! The Quran/ Hadiith>> and if the source happens to be on the web>> then distinguish its credibility b4 making ur own assumptions.

One verse may/ may not tell u what u want to hear…therefore u have to read the whole soura(chapter) to understand its main message. Saying that verse… says this or that, is not enough, u must provide better evidence to make ur argument or comment valid.

Muslim4Life said...

here is a better Quran interpertation source of every verse in the book..

Muslim4Life said...

Hi Perpetua,
Rape, whether it being of a muslim/ non-muslim women is not a easy problem to handle. I know that some muslims will go beyond what is said in the Quran and Shariya when it comes to rape victims>> like some may kill them. But again, just like there are ignorant non-muslims, there are ignorant muslims...there will be ppl who follow the Quran and sharyia 100% and there will be ppl who follow what they want or think is important. And I know that is frustrating to hear about innocent rape victims being killed for being "vitims" but in any circumstance where a case cannot be proven or made... and the vitims ends up dying, Allah will have great reward for the victim.

Islam prohibits the molestation and rape of women. Therefore, it
enjoins hijab for women and prescribes capital punishment for a convicted rapist.

Ameera said...

Pleaz put down these books that u are finding about "women oppression, etc.." I have checked them out, all I can say is that these books are written by non-muslims (anti-muslims) OF COURSE YOU'RE GOING TO SEE THEMM WRITING BAD THINGS ABOUT Islam,its Law, and followers... therefore I advice you to look for more reliable sources such as ones that are FACTUAL/TRUTHFUL/ UNBIASED/ AND NON-MISSLEADING.

You may think that its all easy to search or find things on the net that come in handy, but what u dont know is that its very easy for one to crap a book/ article.. dissing Islam/ its Law/ hadiith/ and other sources. VERY EASY TO DO THESES DAYS. I suggest u start looking at more unbiased sources, ones that are credible and authors who are affiliated to write about such topics. Be wise in what u find, and be able to distinguish between what is factual and what is fictional.

Ali said...

way 2 go Muslim4Life,JAK & may Allah give u ajir and thawab for clearfying their misconseption and ignorance about our beautiful religion-Islam.

Perpetua said...

Hi Muslim4Life,

I am concerned with how Islamic Law is actually being applied. I gave links to two examples where rape victims were treated as the criminals.

When Islamic Law is actually applied, rape victims wind up being treated as the criminals.

In one case I linked, the 13 year old girl came to the authorities complaining of the rape. She was treated as an adulteress because she admitted to having had sex by complaining of the rape.

In the other case, the woman got pregnant. The pregnancy is clear evidence that sex occurred. She could not prove that she had been raped.

This is the way Islamic Law is implemented. Islam winds up punishing the victim for being raped.

The premise of the hijab is that women are responsible for men's behavior. But men are responsible for their own behavior. Forcing women to wear the hijab our of concern for men's arousal is blaming the victim for men's sexual assaults.

Just because men are sexually aroused does not mean they need to act out their desires. Muslim men need to take responsibility for controlling their own behavior, developing the ability to have a desire and not act on it. This idea that women need to be hidden from view reflects very poorly on the self control of Muslim men.

Perpetua said...

Why are the comments by three names: Ameera, Ali and Muslims4Life all registered as being from one person, Dave Raes?

Christopher Logan said...

Muslim4life said,
As a muslim, I strongly suggest you don't, infact NEVER judge Islam or any other religion by its followers.

This is just a cop out as your religion allows pedophilia, extortion and lying. Islamic scholars in Saudi Arabia are OK with grown men marrying children. That is Islam.

We have read sources by Islamic scholars and we see what Islam and the brutal sharia law are all about. So save the excuses. I have no respect for Islam and will not pretend that I do. It is called freedom of speech and if you cannot deal with it, that is your problem.

Ben said...

The problem with the Ahmadiyya Qur'an is that besides the queer numbering system, it is a scanned image, very difficult to quote from, worse with the new watermark they have added.

Also, it is extremely slow loading on a dialup system.

Anonymous said...

Hey Ameera we do not have to do anything that you say. Who the fuck are you? Your religion is a disgrace to the modern world. And only losers allow their husband to have more than one wife.

Christopher Logan said...

Muslim4life said,
Islam prohibits the molestation and rape of women. Therefore, it
enjoins hijab for women and prescribes capital punishment for a convicted rapist.

This is a straight out lie. There is no minimum age limit for marriage under Islam. Civilized people call that molestation and rape. Also a woman in an Islamic marriage has to have sex if she wants to or not. Once again, not civilized. Let me save you some time, you are not going to change our minds on your religion.

Christopher Logan said...

Islam allows the taking of sex slaves. That is rape!!

Petey52 said...

According to the Koran, Mohammad was a terrorist and rapist. Thanks for admitting that Muslim4life.

Muslim4Life said...

WoW! so much little evidence to prove what ur saying is even true!

Chris...u wanna go about saying how my religion lies?? PROVE IT
Your concerned with why grown men marry children? Here's what u need to know that (I have my own opinion on that) but to keep my answer factual; A women or "girl" is considered an ADULT in Islam is when they reach puberty...(marriying at age 13, 14, 15 is okay)that is not wrong... only u whould think that bc in the west Older men kidnap children and then rape them... But in ISLAM, THEY ARE LEGALLY MARRIED, WITH LEGAL CONSENT BY THE PARENTS WITH THE APROVAL OF SHARYIA'A COURT. Get ur facts straight... if u dont agree with someone's way of life.. then pleaz explain 2 me how this counts for rape and molestation? Look up both words u used and be sure u use them in the right context.

"Islam and the brutal sharia"??? what the heck are u getting at? u know NOTHING NOR HAVE READ ANYTHING ABOUT THE LAW...dont confuse ur self with wikipedia now!AND IF U ACTUALLY HAVE READ OR KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT THE LAW...u whould know that taking sex slaves is PROHIBITED!

And if u dont want to have respect for Islam or me...DONT, by saying that, it means absolutely nothing to me, for all I know is for one to not respect someone else, he has no respect for himself.

Muslim4Life said...

Anonymous...dont do what Ameera said about BEING REPECTFUL as it is a responsibility for every human being to do...You disagree with Islam? good 4 u, then go find something else 2 do...but would u care to explain how Islam is desgrace to this world??? And if according to u it is, than why is it a Universal religion? why is it the FASTEST GROWING RELIGION IN THE WORLD? 'common, people aint stupid to follow something that is a disgrace>> u want to elaborate on that statement?? PROVE IT

So whould u rather have ur sister/ mom.. marrying a married man, or becoming "public property" or having multiple affairs every so often...??? this is not so confusing ppl, use common sense! would u be better off hearing that ur sister has a safe place to live, and a man to protect her, or know that ur sister lives on the street or alone and get raped, molested while working in clubs and on the street for money to stay alive? Dont confuse the situation!!

Why r u so ignorant about it? be open to dailouge, question what u dont know/ understand..

Perpetua said...

Hi Muslim4Life,

How old was Aisha when Mohammed first had intercourse with her?

Perpetua said...

Hi Muslim4Life,

Islam is the fastest growing due to childbirth and the apostasy law. In Muslim countries, women are conscripted into having babies from the time they hit puberty. And anyone who tries to leave Islam is killed as an apostate.

But Muslims have trouble getting converts. Christianity gets the most conversions. People actually want to become Christians. And Christians don't kill people who leave the religion.

Muslim4Life said...

Islam does not wind up punishing the victim for being raped. PEOPLE WIND UP PUNISHING THE VICTIM...just like any law out there, there WILL be times when the law is broken, and ppl are mistreated. Islamic Law provides the outline on what one who works for that law should so. And ppl can abuse the law and do as they please. However, dont confuse the situation that the shariya'a is implemented in every Muslim country...Some countries will admit to following it (all the way) while other countries will only apply parts and add their gov. laws in. But just keep in mind that only a small % of rape occurs in the Muslim world...if u compare those # with that of the US, u will see that the US has a much higher rape rate than in the Muslim World. You know why? its bc of the shariya'a! Allah gives direct warning in the quran about rape...if one commits it, they will be burned in the fire of Hell. Allah also has the muslim way of life set up so that both men and women avoid these situations.

Women are not responsible for men's behavior, nor are men responsible for women's behaviors. And to keep it straight and simple, WOMEN ARE NOT FORCED TO WEAR Hijab!!! it is an obligation by Allah (swt) not by man, so u cant say "forced" since its an order by our creater.

Women wear it for multiple reaseons, and the main one is to not attract the oppisite sex while also protecting her honor and BEING MODEST.

Muslim4Life said...

(you had me laughing there) Perpetua! Islam is not fast growing bc of childbirth! But becuse ppl come to realize that ALL OF WHAT ALLAH MENTIONED IN THE QURAN is TRUE...all of it!

But seriously, where are u getting this information about "women conscripted into having babies from the time they hit puberty"??? ITS SO NOOOOOOOT TRUE! "And anyone who tries to leave Islam is killed as an apostate!!!" This is not Muslims..IT WAS THE CHRISTIAN CRUSADES WHO KILLED AND FORCED THEIR RELIGION ON PPL DURING THE TIME OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE...we aint in the dark ages no more, wake up, its 2009 >> no muslim gets killed for converting to another relgion.

Allah gives one the freedom to do what ever they want, and if one decides to leave Islam...they freely can (WITHOUT BEING KILLED)but just know that they won't be the ones to enter his heaven.
(u got more non-muslims converting to Islam than ANY OTHER RELIGION on the face of this earth...thats why its so fast growing! (i dont know about kids, nor having muslim girls as baby-machines in today's world) what ever myths u got, be sure to have subsequent evedince to back up ur answers/ opinions :)

Im Muslim, and have been my whole life... but u're not, also u dont know much about the religion since u have no experience with how its really like, therefore making vague assumptions based off of things u have seen on TV or in the media is not sufficient.

But if u think Christianity gets more converts...simple, all I have to say is prove it!

Perpetua said...

Hi Muslim4Life,

You may be a Muslim, but you seem to be ignorant of how Islamic Law is actually practiced in Muslim countries. Here are links to two recent posts I did about people who are now in danger of being killed under the apostasy laws:

Saudi Arabia


Muslim4Life said...

Though what does Aisha's age have to do with anything...when Mohammed first had intercourse with her?

...she was 13 when she got married to the prophet, If u have the same feelings as Christopher Logan feels about Older men marrying younger women, then refer to what I said about it... if u see something wrong with it, then so be it... but if its legally acceptable in someone else's religion...there is nothing wrong with it!

For example, In Islam, Muslims are prohibited from eating pork, consuming alcohol, doing drugs,dating, having pre-marriage sex, etc...

Even though I disagree with the ppl who get high, get drunk, have kids without being married, abortion...etc... u dont see me direspecting or questioning ur way of life! WHY may u ask? bc Im not the judge of how u ppl choose to live ur life, Only Allah is the judge of that- he created this world for us and everything/ everyone in it.

You folks think that Islam is this and that... saying all of what u think is bad about it, while forgetting about ur own religions/ cultures/ and ways of life as a muslim doesn't even compare to urs... bc My religion explains everything I need to know in this life and more and provides me with guidance everyday..

Muslim4Life said...

Saying that I disagree with u doesnot make me ignorant perpetua! I have not ignored ur links, I explained to u about the rape stories...and how the shariya'a was mis implemented ...Unfortunately, no country in this world follows anything 100%...therefore when a country decides to use eshariya'a ..they will use it and add their own gov. laws as well. No man is 100% fair, no law is 100% fair to all ppl. But sharaya'a. When The Islamic Law is applied 100% correctly, then it is right. Some punishments may be cruel and not right to ppl in the US or elsewhere who follow democracy... but this Law, Is not a law made by the human beings, but by Allah (swt) for his ppl to follow.

It seems to me that u are so convinced about the Law being not good, but thats ur opinion about it,Again...dont judge Islam and its law based on the actions of its followers, but by its authentic sources!

try reading the law, the quran in its authentic format for a chance...and see for ur self how beuatiful it truly is.

Ben said...

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64:

Narrated 'Aisha:

that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).

Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3309:

'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house at the age of nine. She further said: We went to Medina and I had an attack of fever for a month, and my hair had come down to the earlobes. Umm Ruman (my mother) came to me and I was at that time on a swing along with my playmates. She called me loudly and I went to her and I did not know what she had wanted of me. She took hold of my hand and took me to the door, and I was saying: Ha, ha (as if I was gasping), until the agitation of my heart was over. She took me to a house, where had gathered the women of the Ansar. They all blessed me and wished me good luck and said: May you have share in good. She (my mother) entrusted me to them. They washed my head and embellished me and nothing frightened me. Allah's Messenger (, may peace be upon him) came there in the morning, and I was entrusted to him.

Perpetua said...

Hi Muslim4Life,

You wrote "but if its legally acceptable in someone else's religion...there is nothing wrong with it!" I don't believe you really mean that. For example, consider this from Uganda:
There has actually been an increase in the incidents of child sacrifice by witch doctors. Would you say "if it's legally acceptable in the witch doctor's religion ... there is nothing wrong with it"? I hope not!

In the same way, your religion may permit sexual abuse of children, but that doesn't mean there is nothing wrong with it.

Ben said...


If testimony does not concern property, such as a marriage or prescribed legal penalties, then only two male witnesses may testify (A: though the Hanafi school holds that two women and a man may testify for marriage).


If testimony concerns fornication or sodomy, then it requires four male witnesses (O: who testify, in the case of fornication, that they have seen the offender insert the head of his penis into her vagina).


If testimony concerns things which men do not typically see (O: but women do), such as childbirth, then it is sufficient to have two male witnesses, a man and two women, or four women.

See how beautiful Allah's law is?

Ben said...

"that taking sex slaves is PROHIBITED!"


When a child or a woman is taken captive, they become slaves by the fact of capture, and the woman's previous marriage is immediately annulled.

Volume 5, Book 59, Number 459:

Narrated Ibn Muhairiz:

I entered the Mosque and saw Abu Said Al-Khudri and sat beside him and asked him about Al-Azl (i.e. coitus interruptus). Abu Said said, "We went out with Allah's Apostle for the Ghazwa of Banu Al-Mustaliq and we received captives from among the Arab captives and we desired women and celibacy became hard on us and we loved to do coitus interruptus. So when we intended to do coitus interrupt us, we said, 'How can we do coitus interruptus before asking Allah's Apostle who is present among us?" We asked (him) about it and he said, 'It is better for you not to do so, for if any soul (till the Day of Resurrection) is predestined to exist, it will exist."

4:24. Also (forbidden are) women already married, except those (captives and slaves) whom your right hands possess. Thus has Allâh ordained for you. ...

Prohibited: in a pit's ass!!!

Christopher Logan said...

Here is your proof. Islam allows pedophilia.

Marrying a 13 year old girl is dead wrong. You are a sickening human being. They are not mentally developed and I do not care what some Sharia Courts says.

I have read up on Sharia law, so do not talk about what you do not know. Either you are a complete liar or you are ignorant on Islam.
Islam does allow sex slaves and Ben just proved that.
You also lied about how old Aisha was when she married Mohammad. Ben and I proved that also.

I have plenty of respect for myself and that is part of the reason I do not and will not respect Islam.
So save the spin, I have heard it all before.

Islam grows so much because of birthrate and threats of death if people want to leave it. There is little freedom for other religions in the Islamic world, because Islamic leaders are afraid of other religions. This is nothing to be proud of. Just because it is growing does not mean we will change our minds or accept Islam.

We are not ignorant on Islam and we have provided backup sources. You have given us nothing but your meaningless opinion and lies. Let me save you some time, you coming here trying to con people will not work.

It's an injustice to NOT marry girls aged 10, says Saudi cleric

Last updated at 12:55 AM on 15th January 2009

Ten-year-old girls are ready for marriage, according to Saudi Arabia's most senior cleric.

Sheikh Abdul-Aziz Al Sheikh, the country's grand mufti, told Al Hayat newspaper that those saying ten or 12-year-old girls are too young to marry are being 'unfair' to them.

Al Sheikh's comments come at a time when Saudi human rights groups have been pushing the government to put an end to marriages involving the very young and to define a minimum age for marriage.

In the past few months, Saudi newspapers have highlighted several cases in which young girls were married off to much older men or very young boys.

But I am sure that you know so much more about Islam than him.

Christopher Logan said...

Perpetua said,
In the same way, your religion may permit sexual abuse of children, but that doesn't mean there is nothing wrong with it.

Thank you and we see how sick people like Muslim4life are when they go along with this line of thinking.

Anonymous said...

Muslim4Life posted this

but if its legally acceptable in someone else's religion...there is nothing wrong with it!

Bullshit, your religion is a disgrace to humanity and so are you. You are a danger to society and our laws do not say it is OK.
Respect our laws or pay the price of going to jail. I spit upon any ideology that allows child abuse. I spit upon Mohammad the child rapist.

You are obviously too dumb to see that we are not going to change our beliefs because your backwards so called religion says the opposite of what we believe in.

Anonymous said...

In the CIVILIZED world that is rape and molestation. Lose the word games and in the USA we do not live under Islamic law.

Anonymous said...

No one knows the true number of rapes in the Islamic world because they are not reported. Your excuses are old and tired.

Go away liar.

Christopher Logan said...

Non-Muslims do not have equal rights under Sharia law. We are fine with US laws and we will NEVER accept sharia. You need to keep your religion to yourself, as we are not impressed with it.

The penalty for leaving Islam is death.

The four major Sunni Madh'hab (schools of Islamic jurisprudence) and the Twelver Shi'a Jafari madhab agree that a sane adult male apostate must be executed.[1] They differ on the punishment for a female apostate - some schools calling for death and others for imprisonment.

Anonymous said...

Ben this seems like a bunch of double talk stemming from Islam.

4:24. Also (forbidden are) women already married, except those (captives and slaves) whom your right hands possess. Thus has Allâh ordained for you. ...

When a child or a woman is taken captive, they become slaves by the fact of capture, and the woman's previous marriage is immediately annulled.

One part says married women are forbidden and the other says you can kidnap them and their previous marriage is immediately annulled.

Thanks for posting that.

Ben said...

Anonymous, it is an exception, not a conflict. Muslims are forbidden to snatch the wife of another Muslim, but they are permitted to snatch the wife of a Kuffar under attack.

The blood & property of Kuffar are not sacred to Muslims.

Islam is mercenary & carnal, not spiritual & moral. It is about obtaining wealth, income, power & sex slaves for Moe.

Download Sahih Bukhari.chm from
Search it for azl and read the matching hadith, you'll get an eyefull.

Anonymous said...

Of course, they think that they are are better than us.

Thanks Ben.

Fuckislam said...

to "retard-promoter-of-barbaric-filth", a.k.a muslim 4 life. Her's a little quote {2 in fact}“A man can have sex with animals such as sheeps, cows, camels and so on. However, he should kill the animal after he has his orgasm. He should not sell the meat to the people in his own village; however, selling the meat to the next door village should be fine.”
From Khomeini's book, "Tahrirolvasyleh"

Supreme Leader of the Islamic Revolution Ayatollah Khomeini's Religious Teachings on Marriage, Divorce and Relationships (Parvin Darabi, USA-based Dr. Homa Darabi Foundation website, Jun 10, 2006: "A man can marry a girl younger than nine years of age, even if the girl is still a baby being breastfed. A man, however is prohibited from having intercourse with a girl younger than nine, other sexual act such as forplay, rubbing, kissing and sodomy is allowed. A man having intercourse with a girl younger than nine years of age has not comitted a crime, but only an infraction, if the girl is not permanently damaged. If the girl, however, is permanently damaged, the man must provide for her all her life. But this girl will not count as one of the man's four permanent wives. He also is not permitted to marry the girl's sister."
Now, try to get your head around follow the deranged rantings of a serial rapist mass murdering peadophile warlord thief psychopath and probable psychotic { as proved by your hadiths}.
Try being a human for awhile.

Anonymous said...

FuckIslam,Muslim4Life is not a human being, the sicko thinks that molesting children is OK, all because Islam says it is OK.

On top that he is a liar and a coward. He has run away when the facts came out.

Fuckislam said...

I stand corrected. I keep making the mistake of thinking that just because they occasionally get around on their hind legs that they are human. {silly me!}
Their natural posture is more "serpent" like...which they have to do 5 times a day.

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